Tri-Star-Angle

nina-liebert:

wolfgang-grimmer:

Mit Nina und Johan! Nina can be quite silly when she has some wine. It’s cute.

DANKE DANKE DANKE DANKE DANKE DANKE DANKE!!!! (each typed and not copy/pasted)

Oh wow! It’s the “drunk with enthusiasm” picnic we’re all going to have this weekend! Except, wouldn’t it be hilarious if you drew both me and toongal next to you guys as well? Wait, no, toongal could simply go to the picnic as Dr. Reichwein, maybe? So, are we going to be edgy, cool, and experimental and hold the picnic LIVE on tinychat?

(I think this is much better than my previous theory that probably had some inconsistencies or some gray or confusing parts.  Geez, hopefully after posting this I can just chill my toasty buns.)

My final FUK U SIS, SEE YOU IN TEN YEARS input:

Okay, I believe that Johan at some point believed his feelings did not matter apart from his sister’s and this was his way of coping with his mother’s choice.  For 10 years, this would feed his endlessly growing need to create omnipresent creations (e.g., thought control experiments, hive mind stuff, counterfeit schemes, etc.) to impose upon whichever unsuspecting individual he could for fun.

By the time Johan had grown up, he likely had conjectures that he was the one who was unwanted by his mother and was supposed to be left behind in the apartment from very early on and that’s partially why he was failing to become a complete monster. 

He felt he was failing to become a complete monster, since he always fell short of becoming the ideal “Johan.”  This was his aim in the first place to become “Johan” and never break the illusion, so he could satisfy being constituent-ally a human and a monster in one.  Instead, he only succeeded in putting a monster and another monster on top of another monster in one. 

Since he was also trying to figure out why he consciously gave up his identity/accountability in the first place, he presumed that he had to have done it because he was sent to the Red Rose Mansion, and Bonaparta had forced him to give everything up somehow. 

His strange and unusual conclusion that he both stayed in the apartment and went to the mansion is impossible for one person to undergo.  It also possibly suggests that he wanted to divert far more blame onto Bonaparta rather than his mother. 

Johan could not figure out which memory belonged to which and at what point one memory began and the other ended. Just how he managed to lose that distinction entirely I’m not sure.

I will say it might have something to do with having a different purpose/reason for living before he was shot compared to the altered purpose/reason for living after he was shot.  Tenma saving the boy suggested to him that he was possibly wanted and that he truly was “Johan.” I’m going say it’s Tenma’s action that altered his reason for being and gave him the strength to leave his sister alone for at least 10 years.

I think the eventual confusion in identity, memories, and experience comes more from the fact that Johan had simply forgotten that the whole planning of both he and his sister transforming into “Johan” thing all started initially as a coping mechanism with his mother’s choice, and the fact the twins could not see their mother anymore. 

He believed that both he and his sister had no choice but to leave their mother, and he would have to become “omnipresent” in order to protect his sister from her trauma.  Therefore, he was the one who superimposed his mother’s choice with the storybook with his sister with everything else that happened to him. 

I think he absolutely refused to acknowledge that he created the situation on his own, so he tried to erase his own feelings and inputs that implied he had created the plan as a figment of his imagination.  He effectively discredited himself and erased his own self including why he did what he did.  Bonaparta would effectively become the nameless monster and he and his sister would be like “Johan,” which would be what he probably desired most of all. 

It was all because Johan believed it was he, his mother, and his sister who were connected in Bonaparta’s plan that he wanted to wipe all actions, choices, feelings, and consequences of those three clean using the storybook because they “deserved” it from continually being oppressed by the eugenics experiments. 

However, when Johan tried to leave the scenery of the doomsday with his sister, in actuality, he could not.  He collapsed with his sister, and they were both susceptible to fatigue and weakness.  It confirmed they were both unwanted and unwanted=weak in his psyche—he wanted to erase himself from that existence with his sister and find a purpose even though they were nameless but he never could. 

This created a dilemma deep down in his own mind that once had the ability to distinguish between whether he was more human or a monster.  To say the least, he wanted to disregard his mother’s choice altogether for their own good.  However, he would attempt to completely conquer all unwanted things out of a deeply formed habit/desire to not appear weak.

Attempting to erase the feelings surrounding that moment, he effectively created a mental block later on that he struggled to take down himself.  Johan actually had to fight his own mental block of his own construct in order to see the truth and wake up from his “dream.”

Deep down by his own standards, Johan probably thinks he is no good just like Tenma thinks he is no good. 

I still contend that after being shot in the head, his sister forgetting him, and following the plan to kill the moment he “awoke” which continually erased his existence cemented his inability to wake up from his “dream,” and guaranteed he would never be able to recover the part of himself that he threw away/destroyed and labeled as non-important. 

I think he realized his sister could not help him at a certain point, and he could not help her so he had little choice but to leave her.  He would still be unable to remove the myth he created surrounding the two from when he was a child even as an adult.  He could do very little to gain his sister’s acceptance or forgiveness of her own free will, which further disintegrated his will to live. 

Despite believing he may have had a purpose due to Tenma saving him, Johan was so used to this feeling of not existing or not being whole without his other half, since he still had a natural compulsion to incorporate his sister into his plan to become “Johan” that he would not let go of no matter what. 

It was because the plan itself was THE final sentiment/purpose that he believed existed within him and her even though Nina never had any desire to become a part of it in the first place.  He seemed to derive comfort from the nameless connection of the distant past between him and her even though it was not pretty. 

Nina would be forced to forgive him because they were at an extreme impasse.  If she didn’t want to forgive him, she would never be able to overcome the inexplicable urge to kill him.  I think Nina was the one who had to try really hard not to say FUK U BRO, SEE YOU IN TEN YEARS because she seemed to really think he didn’t give a crap about her. 

P.S. I think Johan had actually tried to provoke Nina to kill him if only because Tenma was going to kill him.  I think in a way Johan believed that since Tenma was going to kill him, it generally meant that Nina was not wrong to shoot him the first time around.  Strangely enough, if Tenma had shot Johan and killed him, that would one and for all, in Johan’s perspective, wipe Nina’s hands clean.  

Okay, how was that? I tried to incorporate as many different peoples’ views as possible.

(Ahem, my apologies since I could not reblog the question I asked, I have to manually reblog it.)

Tri-Star-Angle:

Sorry, to bug you, but I have a few more questions relating to that yandere discussion we had earlier, Johan Rapper. I do think it seemed rather yandere for Johan to tell his sister all those acorns and toy stores would be his sister’s one day, but what do you think he meant by that sentiment exactly? Is it yandere or simply something any sibling would want to hear their brother say? Is it possible he was just saying whatever she would like to hear to keep her busy and distracted?

Johan Rapper:

I’m not sure if any sibling would say such a thing, especially because most siblings are always fighting.You know, that thing of “I love you but I hate you” that we have in family relationship.Maybe twins are not like that?Hummm.

Also, he made that little game to choose the hand.That was hgggnnn.He is really damn sweet with her.

Well, same here.  That looked kinda yandere.  And now that I think of, the thing about any sibling saying that it’s even more absurd.  Brothers are always telling their parent “Heey, mom, why does AnonAnon has this and I don’t?I want one too”.

I guess the normal to say is “One day they will be all ours”.But, meh, I don’t even talk with my sister anymore, and when we do, we’re always discussing.Sooo == Oh, there’s also this>

“You are me and I am you” If they would be the last person in the world, every single acorn and toy store would be it’s possession, don’t you think? the dead people won’t be needing it.

Tri-Star-Angle:

Well, I don’t have a sibling, so I wouldn’t know what that’s like.  I definitely don’t know what it’s like to be a twin, so does anybody who’s a twin wish to elaborate? I would be all ears.  Anyway, I am an only child and what he said to his sister was in some ways a not so crazy thing in my perspective because I think I would tell someone very close to me similar things…sort of.  Even though it’s rather over compassionate of me, I have the occasional urge to give someone else as much as I can with little or nothing back in return.  I bet I would say even more stranger things, especially if I knew I might be dying soon. 

I can’t decide whether at that point Johan already knew he was going to die and wanted what was best for his sister to compensate for what might happen or he was trying to keep his sister from finding out about what he had done, so he maybe would be willing to go so far as to unfortunately “buy her out.”  His sister seems to resent the “You are me, and I am you.” concept majorly because he uses it to become omnipresent toward everyone.  Instead of truly protecting her, he is trying to form her and him into one person using the nameless monster as a template. 

He is willing to do this likely because he recognizes he could do almost anything he wants through shrewd manipulation and willpower, and as Anna/Nina righteously should suspect, he might one day inevitably sacrifice/consume his sister if he must.  Personally, I think that Johan himself doesn’t think he would destroy her at least not deliberately but at what price does this “protection” come at? Pretty much everything Anna/Nina may care about.  

So, to say he is yandere can be correct, but I feel it could just as easily be dangerously incorrect.  I’m still on the fence as to whether Johan is yandere or not, but then again, do we call politicians, executives, or soldiers willing to kill others to protect the people they love all yandere? *Shrug*

I describe Johan in general as someone loves his sister as a sibling normally should (I mean normal in a VERY loose sense), but he’s a murderer and traumatized on top of that and may appear more desperate to be close to his sister because of that (violence creates a vicious cycle of desperation that can lead to more violence.)  If he doesn’t have the “You are me, and I am you.” concept, he is blank and fears he may forget everything about her or his mother.  I suppose this is possibly why Nina regretted never forgiving Johan a long time ago.

As for killing to get his sister what she wants, I’m pretty sure at some point Johan would realize it’s not practical to kill all the time because isn’t there the 6 degrees of separation principle? Wouldn’t he have to basically kill 6 people everyday or way more? I’m sure it didn’t discourage him from doing terrible things, anyway.

(Plenty of entries in my blog are full of spoilers, so if you haven’t finished “Monster,” you definitely don’t want to come here.  You should turn back while you still can.  For the rest of you, enjoy my slightly humorous altercations to “Monster” below.)

“Once upon a time, there stood a skunk monster at the end of the world.  This is the story of what happened when a set of twins became the skunk monster.  They had been given little chance of avoiding such a transformation, since they were surrounded by other skunk monsters bent on creating their new overlord.  They watched as their mother could no longer protect them from such a terrible fate. 

One of the siblings was taken away to undergo skunk monster experiments at the Red Rose Mansion.  The other was left all alone with no mother and sister in sight, and he opened a book about a lonely skunk monster with no name.  He sadly acknowledged that he and his sister together was the skunk monster. 

Normally peaceful skunks would be lovable, but they were not tame skunks.  They were potentially psychotic skunks, and they were anxious they were becoming the skunk monster.  He believed he and his sisters’ change in nature could not be reversed because they were the skunk monster from the very start.  He heard his sisters’ story about the top ranking skunk monster who killed all the other members of the skunk monster experiment, and he tried to come up with a plan. 

In his plan, there would be a world where he would skunk everyone with skunk weapons, and they would escape the skunk monster Bonaparta from getting them at all costs.  After they ran away, all the individuals he and his sister met at first who wanted to make peace with the skunk monster were skunked to death.  In order to skunk masses of individuals, he later tried to develop new skunk weapons to distribute to everybody and anybody. 

The best he could do was manipulate others to use his skunk weapons on anybody they wanted, so they would know what it felt like to be skunk monsters.  His aim was to isolate these pathetic creatures so that they would dig their own grave.  He would then go over and skunk all over their graves once more.  He would one day distribute so many skunk weapons of mass destruction all over the country, the inhabitants would be doomed to either skunk others or be skunked.  It didn’t matter if they were good, bad, or complete skunk monsters themselves. 

He destroyed many of their blood relatives, neighbors, or friends whom he felt could not be their true skunk monster affiliates.  His sister had no idea he was doing this because she thought they were not skunk monsters with an agenda.  Sadly, he skunked to death so many others that he and his sister ended up lost, lonely, and hungry in the middle of nowhere.  Even the toughest of skunk monsters could die in a place like this.  To half of the skunk monster, this was the scenery of doomsday already seen in the book “Skunk Monster Without a Name.” 

However, they were saved by military employees under the control of other skunk monsters who took them into their orphanages.  They were taken to two separate orphanages, but one orphanage was much worse than the other.  He ended up destroying a whole entire orphanage that was designed to create more skunk monsters, but he did not seem to like these skunk monster orphans either.  He hated the thought of other skunk monsters controlling him or his sister. 

He was able to find his sister again in the other orphanage after wards.  He saw that his sister was faring much better with her own half of the skunk monster issues.  Even if she would never do what he did, he simply wanted to stay with her no matter what.  He believed that he was her and she was him.  Since their mother could not tell them apart, they were both one skunk monster. 

He realized that there were so many potential skunk monsters like he and his sister in the world, but he believed the skunk monster inside of them was growing strongest of all.  He would be the last skunk monster to stand alive at the end of the world.” 

“I don’t know why I like names so much.  It’s nice to say oh you have the same first name as I do? Oh wow, you have the same last name as I do? Wow, you have the same heritage as I do? Well, what do you think of that? We’ve already found a wonderful thing in common.  I suppose we’ve been introduced quite a bit without even really trying?

Let’s talk about names all day long, and the people associated with them.  Let’s say good things about each and every name.  Let’s talk about how easy it is to type in names into our memory banks and access data.  Let’s talk about how you and I can name names so well, we can together detail what a person wears each and every day, and many different extraneous details. 

It’s not strange at all to remember names, words, numbers, dates, and the weather all in our own ways.  It is extremely talented and gifted.  Don’t people like you and I deserve all the praise they get when their names are spoken and heard?  No one can completely forget people like you or me can they? Because they are so unique and their names are so wonderful. 

I will be here for you like other people will be there for them.  I have a strong attachment to you, and I hope you feel the same.  I’m sure no one whom truly cares would dislike you or think bad things when they think of your name.  I like that you think that everything that matters is relevant, and everything that is relevant matters.

You are quite the special living being with a name, existence, purpose, and a place even if no one really knows you quite like I do.  I don’t claim to know it all or be an etymologist, but I’m glad it feels like a very natural part of you and me.  I like names very much.  They can feel like warm memories sometimes or onions that when you peel them make you cry.

I feel true love, peace, joy, and harmony around people even if I don’t really remember my own parents.

My father was a soldier, but, sadly, my mother said that he died. 

Let’s see, I remember a pretty singing voice.  I remember the smell of bean soup.  I remember there was a storybook what was it called again? I remember a sad smile, but I remember being welcomed home.  I remember saying it to myself over and over again that I don’t know who said it—me or my brother.  I feel a pain shooting in my arm, gradually growing worse and worse.  Is this a way of something in my body telling me to remember something?

The pain grows bigger and bigger and spreads everywhere when I am asked to reveal my name.  I can’t stand these questions anymore.

Why is this person questioning me? I am who I am.  I am what I am.  I don’t know what else more I can tell him.  He thinks he really can discover what I am anymore than that?   My name…my brother and I…we don’t exist.  Everyone died because of us! The rose thorns hurt!

He can’t find out.  He simply mustn’t! Because he will die too! It will chase you, find you, cut you up, and kill you! There were monsters in that place where we came from!

We can’t have names can we? I was told we didn’t have names.  There was no need for names in that place.  

That’s right.  I’m not Nina anymore.  I never was her.

I’m home. 

Why am I behaving this way? I am remembering more and more, there’s no turning back now even if it kills me.  But I don’t want to hurt anyone.  I know I am not a monster. 

However, I can’t seem to remember did I receive his memories or did he receive mine?

Was I brainwashed or is my mind playing tricks on me or what? I don’t know why, but I want this to end.  I want my brother to die, but then what? Am I going to kill myself, too?

This is not the way normal siblings are supposed to be—I simply can’t live this way any longer—this dream I’ve been living in is all a fabricated LIE!”